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Considering that I keep a reasonably good track of my fic, I should be same with my essays. Here are the manifestos that I've written for ship_manifesto, idol_reflection and reflections_2, complete with pretentious titles.

Scratching Inside The Head: A character manifesto for Cloud Strife. Deals with the original game.

Becoming Of The Hero: Second character manifesto for Cloud Strife. Deals with On The Way To A Smile and Advent Children.

Mend This Wavering Heartbeat : A ship manifesto for Cloud/Tifa. Deals with the original game.

The Force Within: A character manifesto for Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. Deals with the movies.

I saw Casino Royale a while ago, and a review is coming up either today or in a couple of days.

Date: 2007-02-01 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kimouski.livejournal.com
You know, personally, I thought Cloud was too screwed up in the head during the game to have any feelings for either of the girls. I mean, love is hard enough when you're playing with a full deck.

That's not to say he didn't have deep feelings for Tifa, but I think they were carried over from their childhood more than him developing them over the course of the game.

motchi (from ffnet)

Date: 2007-02-02 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bofoddity.livejournal.com
Well, I think that Cloud had feelings for both Aeris and Tifa, but having feelings doesn't mean that you necessarily know how to deal with them, and if he ever started a relationship with either, things would get complicated very quickly. Although it doesn't show from my essay much, the main reason I'm attracted to Cloud/Tifa as much as I am that although it wouldn't be impossible for them to eventually develop a lasting relationship, it would never be simple and easy. They both have personality traits that clash and issues that they'd like to ignore, but that's what makes the pairing interesting for me. A relationship where the people have to work to make it work feels more real to me than flawless true love.

I agree with you that his feelings for Tifa were mostly based on his childhood feelings for her, and their relationship in FFVII seemed to be more about Tifa developing feelings for him than the other way around.

..I didn't mean to sound this ranty. Sorry about that. *hides*

Date: 2007-02-02 02:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kimouski.livejournal.com
Well, you and I will probably never agree on Cloud's in-game feelings for both women, especially Aeris, but that's okay. I just don't see how, with all the other stuff on his plate, he had time to develop/nurture any inclinations toward romance. Of course, I'm someone who prefers comic books to flowers, so practicality is more my bent. Hard to believe I'm a romance writer.

Personally, I'm fond of the Cloti pairing, just not the way people usually write it. I despise a wussy Tifa and an emo-for-the-sake-of-emo Cloud. I blame Square for that, however.

And you didn't sound ranty, you just sounded like someone with strong opinions. Everyone's entitled to them. I took no offense, and hope you take none from me.

Date: 2007-02-02 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bofoddity.livejournal.com
No, I agree with you there, I don't think Cloud would be interested in any sort of romance during the game. I mean, I think he could consider a romantic relationship in a "could it happen?"-sort of a way, but never too deeply nor too often, if at all. Maybe it would be better to say that his platonic feelings for either Aeris and Tifa have the possibility to become something more, even if it's not likely?

You're totally right about the usual nature of Cloti-fic. Back when I first got into FFVII most Cloti-fics I came across were some sort of variation of a "Tifa pines after unfeeling Cloud and eventually kills herself"-theme which frankly disgusted me. I understand that Tifa can appear somewhat shy and withdrawn in the game, but shy and withdrawn doesn't mean weak and spineless. And don't even get me started with emo-Cloud. Ugh!

No offense taken. On the contrary, I enjoy sharing opinions with others, and yours are very interesting. I like it when somebody makes me think.

Date: 2007-02-02 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kimouski.livejournal.com
Okay, yeah, I can agree with that. *shakes hand, high fives, etc.* Maybe a "what if" during some downtime, and I think he'd be flattered when he really stopped to think about it.

But I doubt he felt enough for Aeris to be pining after his "lost love" post-game. Give me a break, people! The game's timeline was like, three to six months, at best? It's not like they had been together for years, and frankly, they couldn't have known each other that well because Cloud wasn't Cloud.

As for Clotis, I just skimmed over one from ff_press—the Sephiroth memory/Cloud/Tifa one. Honestly, I sat there shaking my head the whole time. I don't know if you've looked at it yet, but I just wanted to throttle Tifa. Throttle her!

Date: 2007-02-02 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bofoddity.livejournal.com
*giggle* Yes, I think he would be. I could see the cocky Cloud in the earlier parts of the game getting really smug about it.

Although I think that Cloud was never completely un-Cloud during the game, you couldn't be more right about post-game Cloud/Aeris-angst! I loathe this idea among the C/A-fans that having Cloud grieve her memory forever is somehow a sign of true and everlasting love, while that sort of behavior is just unhealthy. Not to mention Cloud's eventual suicide over her that tends to happen in fic. Because that's what he would do. Totally. >_<

Do you mean this (http://kazura-uyurin.livejournal.com/47984.html) story with its previous chapters? Because it makes me want to cry. So. Much.

Date: 2007-02-02 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kimouski.livejournal.com
It's pathetic, it really is. And yes, very unhealthy. I can see that the poor man might be tormented over not preventing her and Zack's dying, but... just, no, Cleris fans. No.

YES! That's the fic. Bad, bad, bad. Cloud and Tifa should both be punched. Moral of the story? Too much stargazing is bad for the plot.

Date: 2007-02-02 05:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bofoddity.livejournal.com
It's even worse when it's suggested that Aeris (or Zack) would somehow support that kind of behavior. Makes me wonder just what kind of bizarro world some people live in.

You know what's worst about that story? That it's set after freaking Advent Children and has Cloud deeply in love with Sephiroth. It just doesn't compute.

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